My own update

[pachacuti]

Not sure what to really make of it, but here goes.

So, my wife, who has refused to speak of the relationship with me called me and asked me to call her.  I made her wait a bit because I was busy, but I did call.  We spent 30 minutes where she pointed out that even though her life in her country now was way worse than before she met me, she was much happier there without me. Even though she spoke of things as both our responsibilities for having screwed up since day one (I definitely disagreed that that is true and am sure one day she will see that at the beginning you can't deny that things seemed stellar for us), every thing she said was one accusation after another of how I had basically ruined her life.  She said that there was absolutely no understanding or love.  She reiterated that she never would love me and there was no hope for us as a couple.  I didn't talk about the relationship, I defended myself on being blamed for everything and told her she really needed to reflect on everything she was thinking. Things never went very well during the conversation, but we both got a lot off our chests I guess. 

I don't know what spurred her to make the call now as I am starting to get in the zone.  I am not sure if it was her stating the truth or having some reaction. I am not sure what it means at all.  The weird thing is. I hung up and found that I didn't care.  I wasn't sad, I wasn't angry.  I just am.  I don't know what that means either.

Do I still believe.  Strangely, I do.  I got a sign last night.  Now I have straightened up our bedroom and made our bed every day since she left. Last night when I went to bed, a sweater that she often wore was on the bed.  I didn't put it there (at least I truly don't remember doing it) and it hadn't been there before (again at least not that I recall).  Then today, I get this blow up phone call.  I think the universe is telling me something.  I am not sure of the message.  But she is going to come back to me and the question will then have to be whether I want her.  My lack of reaction to her outbursts frighten me, but not as much as I thought they would.

Just remember, folks, we are all going to be great.  Just believe in yourselves and be happy.

Mark

[pachacuti]

Further update: She chatted at me that she was sorry for being so mean but that although it pains her, she hopes we can understand and accept how things turn out.  I just replied with OK. There is nothing to apologize for.  And left it at that.  Still feel pretty detached.  It's almost as if I can see it all: I would be ecstatic if she were to have some breakthrough, I would be relieved if a move is made that just ends it, I am okay with just sitting around waiting (since I am starting to get pretty active and happy with my own things right now) and I can see myself happy with or without her. I just hope I can get used to this new state, since the state itself is causing me fear. I hope you guys can understand.

[pachacuti]

Yet another update:  A mutual friend just texted me and said she just got off of the phone with a friend of hers and my wife's who just got back from their country (aw, heck, let me just say it since it's getting all awkward: Peru) and had been speaking to my wife.  She said she would call and tell me later but that it is good.  Oh what could the universe want to tell me now??  I hope my feeling happy about this doesn't have a dark side to deal with.  I think I need to detach a little from the happiness, at least enough to be happy with whatever could result from over-optimism.  Gotta keep the vibrations going.

Mark

[Detached&Allowing]

Hi Mark,

I think you posted this in another section as I have already responded.  Let me know what you think.

[pachacuti]

Nope.  I haven't posted this in another suggestion.  Otherwise I would love to comment on your observations.

[Detached&Allowing]

I apologize.  I did respond but it didn't post.     My response to your original post is as follows: Remember that she is the cause of her own misery.  You asked what kind of sign the Universe was providing.  In my opinion the Universe is prompting you to take inspired action.  If it were me and I wanted her back I would start a gratitude list.  I would start with the things I have and am truly grateful for. Then I would add to it the things I desire as though they already exist.  Everything she blamed you for be grateful for the opposite.  For instance, "I am grateful that she appreciates the positive contribution I have made to her life""I am grateful for her love and support""I am grateful that she desires to have a healthy relationship with me" Wake up with that list, go to sleep with that list.  Feel the passion and the goodness it provides.

The fact you are indifferent is a good thing.  It allows you to move forward and perform the exercise above OR move forward with your life. If you have had a fear of moving on then you get exactly the opposite.  The Universe has opened the doors for you to get exactly what you desire. If you desire to be appreciated, loved, supported, etc and she isn't the one to provide that in a healthy relationship then the Universe is trying to give you exactly what you want.

What do you think?

[pachacuti]

Thank you schenderson,

I have been haphazardly doing my gratitude list.  Today I will revise it as you suggest and try to be truly inspired in my gratitude. I can see that I have only done this half-heartedly, because only recently am I beginning to receive indifference.  It will cost me some work to see in her that person that saw the positive contributions I was making, that saw the fun we had, that loved and supported me.  But that was not who spoke to me on the phone today (nor has it been the person who she has been for the past couple of months), so I am going to have to summon up my imagination, dig deep into the past when she was still that person.  While I am willing to be patient for a while yet, I can definitely see myself moving on if that is the way it must be.  It is still so surprising that she could turn so venomous (yet all the while accusing me of all that is evil).  I am simply amazed... deeply disappointed, but amazed. As I get over my fear of this new indifference, I am finding it more comforting than the hurting was.

I wonder if it was a sign also that I saw my ex-wife today for the first time in more than a year. We looked at each other totally indifferent (I don't think she actually recognized me in the moment).  The incident actually made me smile that we had both peacefully moved on.  What else you got for me universe?  I am ready for it.

[bravelioness]

I'm happy that you're making good progress.As for me,still the same.No news about him.I wonder what will happen next.I can already feel that the universe is bringing you and your wife together.Well,babies are angels.I think the baby will be a factor on you guys being together again and be a happy family once more.Well wouldn't it be nice if me and Andrew would be a happy couple as well?Gosh!Sometimes I wish that he has gotten me pregnant so he would be tied to his responsibility.Oh well.Talk to you again next time.Talking to you makes me feel better.Hugs!

[Sweet Spirit]

Brave Lioness,
 I really don't know the best way to reply to your post!
Do you actually think you and Andrew would be happy if he were only in a relationship with you because he is tied to his responsibility? Who would suffer the most? It  is a good thing you are not pregnant with his child. That is the wrong foundation for any relationship. He would resent both you and the child for tying him down.

Sometimes I wish that he has gotten me pregnant so he would be tied to his responsibility.

It is statements like that that make me question your obsession and inability to let go.

Even though you say you are happy for Mark, it sounds to me like you are envious of Mark's situation. You are still desperate and wanting Andrew before Christmas. I would like to offer you hope but I am beginning to see why Andrew does not want contact with you! Everyone here has given you great advice and I know I am the cruel one who you feel is telling you things you don't want to hear, but I am not going to sugarcoat it. You refuse to listen and it is only causing you more pain! You are a desperate woman and I think you may need counseling before you do something irrational. I really hate to tell you this Brave Lioness but you stand no chance at getting Andrew back the rate you're going. The universe (God) is not going to want to put Andrew in that situation, and the universe(God) knows you're not anywhere near ready for a relationship of any kind.

I pray God will speak to you because I don't think any of us here will be able to help you at this point......

I am sorry if that rubs people the wrong way on this forum, and I may be "smited" for my comments after this, but I feel like it needed to be said for your own benefit Brave Lioness.
 Peace be with you.

[bravelioness]

@Sweet Spirit-No,I'm not angry or what.I'm starting to let go even if it is very hard.After all that was said,desperation is the one thing that pushes your desire away.Like what Mark said,do something that would make you happy.I'm thinking of doing some artwork or do other creative work and maybe later go biking.If I may ask you,what do you think is the reason why Andrew doesn't want to have contact with me?I asked him that question too but only said that he doesn't want.

I'm not angry ok.I appreciate it.I will take these people like Mark and Mr.Positive as my role models.A lot of work must be done in my part to achieve the positive state where they are but I know it's worth it to get there.

[Bubbles]

Hmm bravelionness - I still think you should focus on finding your foothold first before thinking about making albums or anything. Or else every other visualization of sorts will be more due to desperation.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[Ginny]

If I may ask you,what do you think is the reason why Andrew doesn't want to have contact with me?

I realise that you asked this question of Sweet Spirit, but I wouldn't be surprised if many people are starting to reach the same conclusion, so I'll tell you why I think Andrew doesn't want to have contact with you.

Apologies for being blunt here, but: you sound like a stalker. You are behaving like a stalker, what with the drives past his house and the wedding photo book and obsessing. You are probably scaring him. The way you are going, he is probably starting to worry that you are like that Glenn Close character in Fatal Attraction. I am starting to worry that you are like that Glenn Close character. A few times I wondered if your posts were for real - if they are, I think you should probably see a therapist. Being hopeful is one thing, but love is all about caring for other people, and wanting to trap men with babies they haven't asked for isn't very loving or caring.

@Sweet Spirit - well, I applauded you - I realise this forum is all about being positive, but love and respect for other people has to be part of that as well I think, so I think you said what need to be said

[pachacuti]

If bravelioness is envious of my situation, she too can have it.  My wife has been nothing but clear that she wants nothing to do with me. My situation and how well I am doing has everything to do with how I am dealing with it. It is only through getting to this point of detachment can I sit there and have her spew complaint after complaint and it doesn't upset me.  I empathize with some of her points and marvel at her interpretation of most of them and a few are just plain crazy, but none of them bother me.  If I feel anything, it is sadness for her that she is working herself up into this vision of the world, of our relationship and of me. I hope she can just stop, take a deep breath, and be happy.  I wish she could just start to look at the good things.  As it is now, it looks like she is just going to remember us and our time together as some long nightmare. If that is the case, I win. Because I look back and see all the wonderful time we had together and I remember the love we shared and I know it was sincere love. I am glad I don't have to look back and just see ugliness.

So, bravelioness, you need to detach from Andrew.  I think therapy might very well be a good idea, because you are obsessing way too much and it is not healthy for you or for anyone.  A therapist would help you get in touch with all the beliefs that are causing you so much pain right now.  Otherwise, you are going to have to find it within yourself to do the hard work of getting in touch with those beliefs.

I wish you the best of luck.

[Ginny]

pachacuti: regarding your original post, strange as it seems, I would take that as a positive.

Just, reflecting as a woman here: If she didn't care, she wouldn't contact you. Contacting you, even if it's just to scream and shout and blame you, shows that she's trying to resolve things in her mind, and there's a part of her that can't let go. I would guess that some part of her was wanting you to prove her wrong, to show her that all the terrible things she is thinking and feeling are untrue. Unfortunately also the fact that you remained calm may have wound her up. If she was getting emotionally involved in the conversation, your calmness may have signalled to her that you didn't care, rather than that you were at peace with yourself. Perhaps, if the situation comes up again, you could find a way of letting her know that you care, but still maintaining the detachment from negative energy that you have been managing so far? Does that make any sense?

[Vicki Christina]

Pachacuti,  I too agree with Ginny that if your wife did not care she would not bother to contact you just to vent her emotions about your relationship.   However I think that by being calm you are showing her a message that calmness and not raw emotion will solve the many issues you two have.  I think if she needs to vent for a while it is good for her to do so with you and with a therapist. She is also in a very stressful state with a baby on the way and she is having hormonal changes in her body which cause mood swings sometimes. In your calmness let her know you want to love her and the baby.    Stay heart centered!   VC