Love vs relationship

[UpLOAding]

Peter, I write the following merely so you understand where I come from.

At the moment (and almost since the time I know LOA, i.e. almost two years now), I am doing my very best to follow LOA but by remaining within the ideals of Christian love at the same time.
The idea of "unconditional love" that is spoken about on this forum, as in "without putting conditions to the other person" has nothing to do with the Christian love. And it has nothing to do with happiness.

First of all, Christian love is expressed in its highest form through marriage and the creation of a child, as well as its development.
How can you marry and create a child without being together, let alone striving at being together?

The unconditional love Jesus was talking about is showing the second cheek when hit on one. To never give up love, to never give up striving. To give more than someone asks when someone asks, and to keep showing kindness and generosity also towards those who do not treat you well, who may antagonize you.

And note very well that the love Jesus was talking about is not just "being happy about someone else's happiness", but displaying it through actual practical actions towards the loved person, showing the other person how much they matter and are important.

And that is exactly what I have been doing with the women I have chosen. I would display to them my love and willingness to be together.

I see not how this is incompatible with the normal process of LOA.

But apparently it is incompatible with the idea of being detached; I mean: how can I achieve being together, marrying and creating a child by detaching myself from the idea of being together???

This is not about craving or desiring. It is quite offensive to equate married love with craving and desiring. I don't know whether you understand this.

But please think about and answer my questions, for the sake of understanding each other.

P.S.: Actually, some Christians would even go to the extent of saying that true love is showing love (= effort to be together) even in the face of rejection, and any kind of negative reaction of the loved person. If they feel uncomfortable of our love, that's their own worries.
We have every right to love, we have every right to show that we are worthy of being with them!
I try not to be extreme... but the more I see some of the ideas here fail, the more I tend to believe that one extreme might be better than the other.

[Mr positive]

ummm wow, how do i say huge ego problem? understanding? words can not help you understand anything! You got to feel the answer! Your mind can not ever understand anything! Your million questions wont get you the answer you want! Start with your heart and enough with the questions! No one can give you the answers you seek! Stop being crazy again! Thought you learned something about not doing anything...

[tereza]

Something I remember hearing awhile back in church about turning the other cheek:

A literal interpretation of the passages, in which the command refers specifically to a manual strike against the side of a person's face, can be supported by reference to historical and other factors.[2] At the time of Jesus, striking someone deemed to be of a lower class with the back of the hand was used to assert authority and dominance.[3] If the persecuted person "turned the other cheek," the discipliner was faced with a dilemma. The left hand was used for unclean purposes, so a back-hand strike on the opposite cheek would not be performed.[4] The other alternative would be a slap with the open hand as a challenge or to punch the person, but this was seen as a statement of equality. Thus, by turning the other cheek the persecuted was in effect demanding equality. By handing over one's cloak in addition to one's tunic, the debtor has essentially given the shirt off their back, a situation directly forbidden by Hebrew Law as stated in Deuteronomy 24: 10-13:

    When you make your neighbor a loan of any sort, you shall not enter his house to take his pledge. You shall remain outside, and the man to whom you make the loan shall bring the pledge out to you. If he is a poor man, you shall not sleep with his pledge. When the sun goes down you shall surely return the pledge to him, that he may sleep in his cloak and bless you; and it will be righteousness for you before the LORD your God.

By giving the lender the cloak as well the debtor was reduced to nakedness. Public nudity was viewed as bringing shame on the viewer, not the naked, as evidenced in Genesis 9: 20-27:

    20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:
    21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
    22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
    23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father’s nakedness.
    —Genesis 9:20-23 Authorized Version

The succeeding verse from the Sermon on the Mount can similarly be seen as a method for making the oppressor break the law. The commonly invoked Roman law of Angaria allowed the Roman authorities to demand that inhabitants of occupied territories carry messages and equipment the distance of one mile post, but prohibited forcing an individual to go further than a single mile, at the risk of suffering disciplinary actions.[5] In this example, the nonviolent interpretation sees Jesus as placing criticism on an unjust and hated Roman law as well as clarifying the teaching to extend beyond Jewish law.[6] As a side effect this may also have afforded the early followers a longer time to minister to the soldier and or cause the soldier not to seek followers of Jesus to carry his equipment in the future so as not to be bothered with their proselytizing.

[peter_93]

Yep, I know mate that is your greatest problem that you can't understand how most people advice about detachment will relate to love connection. And I can tell that person who have this issue is gonna damn keep getting stuck with their girls and guys they want along the way for sure. Weather you realize or not, you did not get Natasha nor Terra for the same issue.

I think I already told you that what you did was not making you get Natasha and recently I also declared that this does not making you get Terra neither, right.. I am not joking for that cos I understand it's not funny to say around, I just feel I would regret if I did not warn you first.

You believe in effort of love of your style which I recall "what you-think-you-believe" thingy as what I told earlier. I would not say it's wrong, there is good in some way, may be it's absolutely right actually--- but you get stuck, probably 80% of the whole process that you get stuck with and you can't unleash the power.

Too many people making a lot of effort and spent sooo much time giving you advice and you just turn them down most of the time and keep come back to ask for what if and how to repeatingly, therefore, I would leave my comments up to here by telling you the end result of what you is going to happen to you and Terra as above paragraph, the rest in detail let's skipped.

Once again, do not believe this. Seeing it by self is the best way to learn practically

Have a nice day --- byeee

[Mr positive]

i would also like to add, there is no such thing as older or younger! We are all awareness, source energy and there is no beginning and no end! Time is just an illusion my friend! So next time you think your more wiser due to age, remember that! I got the same knowledge as every one else, i just have to experience it! just fyi!

[lise]

@uploading. I think people can give you their opinion and advice for ever more but until you're at the right stage it will continue to frustrate you. I think what you want to hear is specific techniques to attract Terra to marry you or be in a relationship with you and with that in mind, I'd say what you need to do is nothing. Back off and let her lead the way in communication. If and when she does then take it slow and appreciate each moment and not over analyse what she says and does.

I feel you're desperate for a relationship with a woman, any woman and Terras interest in you sparked your interest but you're over keenness has put her off. I feel you need to date, not to be promiscuous as I know you don't like that but just to date women even if it doesn't lead anywhere and from that you see what you want and don't want from a relationship and then that leads to the relationship you really want.

I know lots of people who want relationships and they try and make people fit into what they want in order to have that relationship and it's a hiding to nothing.

Get crystal clear and the qualities you want in someone. Work on yourself and how you want to be as a person either to stop the overanalyses or to attract someone who loves that about you. If you're happy as the person you are then that's great and someone who loves you just as you're will come along if you work to attract that. If their aspects of yourself that you'd like to change, work to change those first andnforemost because if you don't like certain things about you other people won't either.

[Ginny]

I agree with lise, particularly with respect to the source of your frustration.

You often say that things have gone wrong for you since following the advice on this forum, but from my point of view (and probably most people who have followed this) it's just the opposite - you seldom, if ever, listen to or implement the advice you are given.

I feel you're like a man trying to grow a flower, and you are hovering over it day and night, asking, "does it need more water?", "does it need more fertiliser?". And we're all saying, "it may need water and fertiliser in time, but right now it needs sunlight, and you're blocking the sun by hovering over it the whole time!" and you come back with, "but how will I protect it from the aphids and slugs if I don't hover over it the whole time?" Meanwhile, the plant is growing pale and wilting due to lack of sunlight. We keep saying, "get out of the way, you are killing the plant!" And you say, "I have followed your advice to the letter, and now the plant is dying. I think I need to go back to my hovering strategy" Finally some circumstances beyond your control drag you away from the plant and allow a little sunlight in, and you say, "the plant is improving, because of my methods. Whenever I listen to you, the plant gets sicker, but when I follow my hovering method, the plant rallies"

Which causes frustration and befuddlement on the part of your audience. Which I guess attracts the same befuddlement and frustration from you.

I think lise is right - you have to work on you, and all the advice in the world isn't going to be any use to you, unless you are in a place where you can use it constructively (and that doesn't mean "following it to the letter", which you don't do anyway, but developing your awareness and judgement so that you can choose the advice and actions that are right for your and your situation in any given instance.)

[Mr positive]

haha so true ginny yet such a funny way of putting it! Yeah get the heck out the sun light! Give some breathing room to your manifestation! Stop the questions and do what you did last time, let go, do nothing! You can not controle the situation but you can controle yourself! Take my advice or not, its you that has to live with your crazy questions!

[ToMeAndOnlyMe]

If we're going to talk about the concept of Christian love being expressed the highest through marriage and the birth of a child, let's backtrack on the "how."

What makes a complete whole when a man and a woman get together? It's a half and half right? The halves are expressed as a full man and a full woman. A full man will not choose a woman who is not their better half just like a full woman will not choose a man who is not their better half.

What makes a full man? We, as women, decide on what we view as a full man depending on personality, just like how a full man decides what is a full woman. Most importantly, for us to be whole, we must be whole within ourselves first and foremost. When we are whole within ourselves, we do not doubt our complete selves.

This brings in detachment/letting go, in order to be whole for others, we must be whole within ourselves. We cannot feel confident, beautiful, handsome, proud etc of ourselves when we constantly rely on others to tell us that we are.

Unconditional love can be applied the same way as Christian love. Love vibrations are different from person to person. My unconditional love to a friend is different to my unconditional love to a parent like it is different to my unconditional love to the cashier who rings in my groceries.

Unconditional love: love that you work with, a building that we make higher and fix when some parts break, it goes hand in hand.

Blind love: love that you exude by continuing to love so much that you oversee all faults and you brush it away under the rug.

That being said, my love vibration for that cashier is going to be much less intense than my love vibration for my parent or my friend. However it is all still unconditional, just different.

Applying your concept of Christian love to unconditional love, we are saying that it holds the highest form of love vibration. We love that person for life, we want to show them our unconditional love through thick and thin by working on that love through trials and tribulations. We try to work through our situations as calmly and responsibly as possible, that's the ideal.

It's exactly as Ginny says with her comparison, you come off with no confidence, frustrated, highly moody and constantly confused. Your moods have been completely dictated by Terra, we have all seen your moods on the forums but she hasn't yet, you really think she wants that responsibility in a relationship? That's essentially the role of a mother. No exaggeration at all. To make things worse, you constantly blame others when you lack responsibility in yourself.

[peter_93]

I love all comments and big thanks to ToMeAndOnlyMe's effort to explained the right perception of Christian Love to this man. This once again show that UpLOAding is clueless of everything, even Christian that he claim he is one for life.

There are many fact of truth people had advice, but this guy is always outsmart people and claim his expertise whether in Christian or LAO Practical User or Psychology Student (kind of). This is what I so call expert as finding reason to turn other people down but keep fooling himself in the lost world.

It is clear by now ToMeAndOnlyMe's explanation has revealed my hints saying why Up is not getting Terra... Obviously woman would not choose a half whole guy to be lover or potential husband, and is even useless to be friend as well by now.

[ToMeAndOnlyMe]

I'll add a little diddly because I forgot to in my original post:

"Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly;
it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Love never fails...But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love."

1 Corinthians 13:4-7,13

This is a Bible quote, a quote of Christian love and the very definition of unconditional love. Notice that I put some of the text in bold? How do you continue to pursue Christian love? You work on it, just like that part of the text says. Now there are several variations of this quote depending on what Bible you derive this from, BUT they all focus on truth and enduring. (Going back to the subject of working on it.)

[UpLOAding]

Before I answer anything specific, I feel that some people, especially peter93, come across as not really wanting to advise me based on my ideas and objectives, but simply based on "he's not right" and "I'm right" and "see? whatever you do gets wrong results" and "hahaha you're not listening so you get the lessons"
Guys, in case you don't understand you're literally offending me, you're HURTING ME. Do you know what that means? You are making me feel worse and worse. You are mocking me and my every effort to explain myself with more clarity.

The example Ginny made with the flower. Well, couldn't it be the other way round?

Look, I am really in a stressed an frustrated mood after reading all these insulting words, so I prefer to ignore some of what was said and just focus on the useful.

But please, please think twice before saying things that are deliberately hurting me and provoking aggressiveness in me.

Thank you.

[UpLOAding]

A big thank you, ToMeAndOnlyMe.

I think you understand part of where I come from. Here are my questions to what you wrote, and I hope you can help me with them. Just so you understand: the fact that I comment or answer to what you wrote means that I am accepting what you say, at least in part, but trying to clarify and build upon it based on my knowledge.

I am in no way rejecting what you say  and I say this because sometimes some people don't understand what is a constructive argument, i.e. building ideas on top of ideas, instead of just saying "I'm right, you're wrong, feel free to listen to whatever advice you wish.".

but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

[...]

This is a Bible quote, a quote of Christian love and the very definition of unconditional love. Notice that I put some of the text in bold? How do you continue to pursue Christian love? You work on it, just like that part of the text says. Now there are several variations of this quote depending on what Bible you derive this from, BUT they all focus on truth and enduring. (Going back to the subject of working on it.)

Exactly, very right! But how is that related - for example - to what you wrote about the selection of a partner, the part where you wrote about whole vs half men and women!?!? I have never learned about such things in Christian theology. I guess it is a secular idea that is being combined into the Christian idea of love, but in itself it has nothing to do with Christianity as far as I know.
In my humble knowledge, it ought be our efforts directed at the peson that should earn the love of whom we would like to be with. What may be an open question is what exactly these efforts are.
Also, ws Christians, we should learn to love regardless of whether we feel confident or beautiful.

Anyway...

Unconditional love: love that you work with, a building that we make higher and fix when some parts break, it goes hand in hand.

Blind love: love that you exude by continuing to love so much that you oversee all faults and you brush it away under the rug.

In case this contained an indirect comment about my behavior, I don't see where or when I have come across as representing Blind Love. The main thing I have been stressing is that Christian love entails building a relationship, entails active actions and interaction with the person we love and would like to marry with.
Please don't confuse this with manipulating or forcing the other person to marry me. It simply means focusing on it as an end goal.

What I don't understand in the advice of most other people on this forum is how detaching from the idea of being together can actually lead us together in the long run.
I know very well that unconditional love is great, really great, but will it necessarily lead us together? That's the question where my worries stem from.

[peter_93]

True mate, I was right, right? I declared most of the time you're not getting Terra, that why you did not like to see me.

I told you I don't talk beautiful word, I am have no business to make someone happy and love me than showing the truth, hurts now or hurts later. So what's wrong with this, unless you intent to manipulate people to your own favor.

I don't surprise you would have done this to Terra.. that why it's busted.

[peter_93]

By the way, when I said "I was right" i was just kidding. I never think so, though, I am just making a reminder that's to what I have said and that's all. I don't twist tongue around like you did, your evidence is all over the forum and people used to put them on the table of how you change you word from day to day.

So please don't cry my name out for justice - you're going too dramatic again.. and stop manipulation people to comment the way you enjoy.

As long as you are posting to public forum, you are receiving all kind of respond.
You cannot manipulate everybody to say in your own way, same as you cannot manipulate your girl to understand you intention.. same same things, see.