My doubts about the effectiveness of RS

[Alexbally]

I assure you that the healing is always done unconsciously within the individuals mind. Just as much as we can bring about changes or circumstances outside of ourselves...all within our own mind.
The change happens within us in both circumstances.

[Anna1408]

My feeling is that rs works. It works just as any kind of telepathy works. But just as some people have difficulty sending telepathic messages, there are people who get poor results from rs, or no results from rs, or the rs backfires because of the rs-er's desperation or impatience, etc. People come with various degrees of psychic ability: some are gifted and some aren't. And there are some people who have trained their ability like a muscle, and others who aren't prepared to do the work. There can be all kinds of reasons why it doesn't work, just as there are all kinds of reasons why loa doesn't work.

I agree with Alex (I can't remember his exact words) that we shouldn't put everything down to the rs we've done. We can't put every tingle we feel down to rs, for example. But what I have experienced is, it does work for some people, at least some of the time.

[Alexbally]

There can be all kinds of reasons why it doesn't work, just as there are all kinds of reasons why loa doesn't work.

Yes there can...like it does not work in the way that people think it works, to name the top reason.
You're pulling out another assumption to claim RS works in saying that it is because of telepathy, when telepathy is not proven factual either. You cannot build a truth on top of an assumption, that just does not make sense at all.

There are no psychic powers at play. Even supposed psychics, get shit wrong. If you're psychic then you're meant to get 'psychic' stuff correct, not 50% of the time , not 33% of the time but 100% of the time. There is no "I'm psychic but only on a Wednesday and when there's a south easterly breeze." That's just a cop out. If it were true, RSers would rule the world by now by shagging there way to the very top. 
If RS worked, there would be shed loads more success stories here, there and everywhere.

I urge you to not be blinded by your own false perceptions Anna. You're a very intelligent woman and I hope you exercise critical thinking in the interests of finding the truth, in my very humble opinion. Take the step back that is needed to observe the bigger picture. See the facts for what they are, do not make ambiguous excuses like things not working because of resistance, etc. Be cut throat. The simple answer is always the correct answer.
There are correct ways to do things and then there's just fantasizing.

[possum-power]

So why does it work, Alex? Hypnosis etc., to attract things and make them happen... and Neville’s brand of LOA?

Feel free to go ahead and explain the phenomenon according to your logic. I’m all ears.

Having said that, you’re right about one thing. That Anna’s intelligent

[Alexbally]

Yes. Thanks for the added validation that was not required, much appreciated. Anna's arse is for sitting on, not kissing.

Things are not attracted per sé. We live life in reverse, as demonstrated by the phenomenon déjà vu. Everything that happens is meant to happen and we seldomly realise this through the phenomena.

Hypnosis is used primarily as a self conditioning tool. Its key endeavour is changing of our perceptions. The things that come our way in life cause us to make choices, act and react. These acts are dependant upon our perception of the experience at the time and carve the path we take but ultimately, we still end up where always planned. Life is just what we make of it, nothing more, nothing less.

Neville, as you brought him in, says this;
"The world of creation is finished and it's original is within us. We saw it before we set forth, and have since been trying to remember it and to activate sections of. There are infinite views of it. Our task is to get the right view and by determined direction of our attention make it pass in procession of our inner eye. If we assemble the right sequence and experience it in imagination until it has the tone of reality, then we consciously create circumstances."

[Love4only1]

Alex, honey, you don’t know shit..

[Alexbally]

Oh, well, that concludes the discussion then folks, discussion is over and all the proof that you need is in Love4only1's post on this forum. She invites you to check them out for yourselves, to scrutinise them and to replicate them...

🤨

I was actually very kind to you previously, you accused me and srakter of bashing you...now, I'm going to be brutally honest with you...
If you still cannot see after all of these years that the only thing that happened in your story is that this guy played you from day one, and still continues to do so simply because he knows he can, then we are not capable of holding a rational conversation together.
Even your story, written in your own words, stink of the fact that this guy has you dangling on a piece of string, and you're meant to be the one that exercised RS and RI on him....
This dude can disappear for months on end, with no word, and you STILL take him back with open arms and put it down to your RS bringing him back 🤪
No, honey, he just feels a bit horny and wants to get his dick wet again.
Jees...there's nothing more I can do to help you see.

How do i know this?
I'm a guy. That's plenty qualification all on it's own for me.
Get your head out of your arse and please see the wood for the trees, for your own sake. This is not healthy.

[Anna1408]

There can be all kinds of reasons why it doesn't work, just as there are all kinds of reasons why loa doesn't work.

Yes there can...like it does not work in the way that people think it works, to name the top reason.
You're pulling out another assumption to claim RS works in saying that it is because of telepathy, when telepathy is not proven factual either. You cannot build a truth on top of an assumption, that just does not make sense at all.

There are no psychic powers at play. Even supposed psychics, get shit wrong. If you're psychic then you're meant to get 'psychic' stuff correct, not 50% of the time , not 33% of the time but 100% of the time. There is no "I'm psychic but only on a Wednesday and when there's a south easterly breeze." That's just a cop out. If it were true, RSers would rule the world by now by shagging there way to the very top. 
If RS worked, there would be shed loads more success stories here, there and everywhere.

I urge you to not be blinded by your own false perceptions Anna. You're a very intelligent woman and I hope you exercise critical thinking in the interests of finding the truth, in my very humble opinion. Take the step back that is needed to observe the bigger picture. See the facts for what they are, do not make ambiguous excuses like things not working because of resistance, etc. Be cut throat. The simple answer is always the correct answer.
There are correct ways to do things and then there's just fantasizing.

True, Alex: telepathy is not proven to really exist. However, loa has not been proven to exist, either. And yet we are still here, on this forum, talking about our manifestations, and so on (or our lack of them). If we all went by proven scientific data, then I don't think that any of us would even be bothering to read posts here, or to buy books.

Well, we can choose to go with the scientific data if we like. Or we can try things out for ourselves. We can either prove it or disprove it.  Up to us, at the end of the day.

I didn't actually mention resistance, in fact. To me resistance doesn't matter too much and I usually found that the target will break down anyway at some point. But that's just my experience of it and may be different for other people.  I stand by my view of it working sometimes, and sometimes not. I have dabbled in remote viewing and telepathy also. With the remote viewing, there have been times when I got quite astonishing results. At other times, I just got everything wrong. The other day a friend sent me a couple of telepathic images. I actually saw the first image she sent me flash before my eyes, very quickly, and very clearly. It was 100% correct. The second image didn't get through at all. Another day she attempted to send a different image, and I got nothing. Sometimes these things have worked, and sometimes they haven't. I don't know why that is. It might be a question of how much energy we have at the time/how alert or tired we are, maybe pressure for it to succeed. No idea on that.

[Alexbally]

or our lack of them

Bingo!

In fact, to elaborate further on my reply above to Possum, everybody sees this completely the wrong way around I feel. I know that this will ruffle a few feathers here but hey....I'm not here to be popular, so, I'll continue....

We create nothing. Nothing at all. Our unconscious mind already knows the path our lives will take. It already knows how and when we will die.
This is demonstrated by phenomenons like visions and déjà vu, the latter of which, every single person capable of thinking on the planet has had, multiple times over. It does not matter the nationality, colour or language, they all stop dead in their tracks and say, "shit, I've seen this before. It's déjà vu." And they are correct....they have seen it before.
Every person has wishes but do they know where their wishes come from, I mean, really know?
For example, a friend that I know wants to own a penthouse. That's all he wants...a nice penthouse. He told me that the wish for a penthouse came from a time a while ago where he was interested in marketing and he saw a video trailer showing the inside of a gorgeous penthouse. He does not even like marketing anymore but he is fixated on the penthouse now.
Does anybody else see the synchronistic events here that has led to him realising his dream? 
What are the chances of him having a short term hobby that brought him to the exact spot in space to watch a video trailer showing him his dream penthouse?

I see it as people have their interpretations back-to-front and as such, their conclusions are confused. They do not create things from imagining, they merely realise what the unconscious mind has in stall for them for the future from visions when in hypnotic states. Otherwise, I could walk down my street and imagine to myself that an arctic lorry is about to drive into me at 60mph...it wont happen though. Not because I don't believe in it, not because of resistance, not because I did not imagine hard enough but because my conscious thought has zero impact upon my unconscious knowing.

When we are in a state of dissociation, our conscious thoughts, emotions, sensory perception are all forgotten and our unconscious mind, always running behind us, rises to the surface and shows us glimpses of what has been before and is still to come. It allows us to see the path to take to reach its dream conclusion.

So, imagination, and I mean real imagination...not fantasizing, is actually us just realising what is and has been there all along, ergo we consciously create nothing, we just consciously follow.

Whatever technique you consciously think you are adhering to, if we all reach a state of dissociation, we all see the same things inside our minds, regardless of our different conscious conclusions of it.

And I'm sorry Anna, you know I like you but I just cannot subscribe to things that happen some times and do not happen other times. That's just the definition of luck...by chance!

[Anna1408]

or our lack of them

Bingo!

In fact, to elaborate further on my reply above to Possum, everybody sees this completely the wrong way around I feel. I know that this will ruffle a few feathers here but hey....I'm not here to be popular, so, I'll continue....

We create nothing. Nothing at all. Our unconscious mind already knows the path our lives will take. It already knows how and when we will die.
This is demonstrated by phenomenons like visions and déjà vu, the latter of which, every single person capable of thinking on the planet has had, multiple times over. It does not matter the nationality, colour or language, they all stop dead in their tracks and say, "shit, I've seen this before. It's déjà vu." And they are correct....they have seen it before.
Every person has wishes but do they know where their wishes come from, I mean, really know?
For example, a friend that I know wants to own a penthouse. That's all he wants...a nice penthouse. He told me that the wish for a penthouse came from a time a while ago where he was interested in marketing and he saw a video trailer showing the inside of a gorgeous penthouse. He does not even like marketing anymore but he is fixated on the penthouse now.
Does anybody else see the synchronistic events here that has led to him realising his dream? 
What are the chances of him having a short term hobby that brought him to the exact spot in space to watch a video trailer showing him his dream penthouse?

I see it as people have their interpretations back-to-front and as such, their conclusions are confused. They do not create things from imagining, they merely realise what the unconscious mind has in stall for them for the future from visions when in hypnotic states. Otherwise, I could walk down my street and imagine to myself that an arctic lorry is about to drive into me at 60mph...it wont happen though. Not because I don't believe in it, not because of resistance, not because I did not imagine hard enough but because my conscious thought has zero impact upon my unconscious knowing.

When we are in a state of dissociation, our conscious thoughts, emotions, sensory perception are all forgotten and our unconscious mind, always running behind us, rises to the surface and shows us glimpses of what has been before and is still to come. It allows us to see the path to take to reach its dream conclusion.

So, imagination, and I mean real imagination...not fantasizing, is actually us just realising what is and has been there all along, ergo we consciously create nothing, we just consciously follow.

Whatever technique you consciously think you are adhering to, if we all reach a state of dissociation, we all see the same things inside our minds, regardless of our different conscious conclusions of it.

And I'm sorry Anna, you know I like you but I just cannot subscribe to things that happen some times and do not happen other times. That's just the definition of luck...by chance!

Aw don't be sorry, Alex, that's an interesting take on it. I'm always open to other views and I respect your opinion. :-)

[MA138]

Things are not attracted per sé. We live life in reverse, as demonstrated by the phenomenon déjà vu. Everything that happens is meant to happen and we seldomly realise this through the phenomena.

This reminds me of something Neville actually mentions,

“Even after it happened I could hardly believe that it would not have happened anyway. That’s how strange this whole thing is.”

“On reflection, it happens so naturally you begin to feel or to tell yourself, ‘Well, it would have happened anyway,’ and you quickly recover from this wonderful experience of yours.  It never failed me if I would give the mood, the imagined mood, sensory vividness.”

And that is something we can all relate to when having success. I think back to a couple of my success stories in recent years and just having this feeling like it was bound to happen. I even imagined everything and it felt absolutely real to me. My conscious doubts where there, but subconsciously there was this inner knowing it was going to happen. That is true faith.

I can remember when I met my last girlfriend. The moment we locked eyes, I pulled the Wayne's World line "She will be mine. Oh yes. She will be mine". She had a long term boyfriend at the time, but the chain of events that lead up to us getting together happened so naturally. Like it would've happened anyway. This is why we experience things like déjà vu and coincidences. I wasn't even surprised that it happened. I was actually surprised that I wasn't surprised that it happened, if that makes sense.

However, loa has not been proven to exist, either

I'd disagree with this, Anna. I think it's been proven to exist, but the whole LOA name is incorrect. Part of the reason why they called it the Law of Attraction is because, due to the time sequence from thought to reality, and the "bridge of incidents/series of events" which often leads you from your thought to your chosen physical reality, it seemed to be "an attraction" like you were going from point A to point B to Point C, etc. It's just physics, really. You get the idea.

The problem with the name LOA is it causes people think in terms of "attraction". That spawns crap like "vibration","getting in the vortex", and all the other silly LOA terms we know and love. Then the people who have success will often rationalize it to being "Oh, I must've let go and he came back. My RS worked!". But when things fall apart for them, they're back to square one and left oblivious to what went wrong. Unfortunately, these people don't use critical thinking and that's why there's so few LOA success stories out there.

What we all know as LOA, is working all the time. Yes, you can have everything or anyone you want. Remember, the universe does not think like a person. Therefore, it doesn't know what's best for you or "has something better" in store for you, as some LOA guru's actually promote it as. It doesn't require you to change your character. It's an impartial law. It gives no matter what. It's just that people go about it the wrong way and treat this law as if it were some spiritual philosophy.

[Alexbally]

First of all, may I say.....
Shwing...sh, shwing...shwing
Love those films, two of my all time faves. Garth rules! "Didn't tell em about my pubes, did ya?"

I would personally say that faith or belief does not come into it. They just don't do it justice for me. When you know....you just know.

People all to easily forget that everything happens for a reason. We would not be here, right now, discussing this very subject if we had come home that warm night when mum said "be home at 9pm" when we were 13. Everything would have been different from that point forth if we had done something different, only, there is no different. Never was and never will be. We follow the script to the T. Everything goes to plan...our unconscious plan. We sometimes get glimpses of this plan. I suggest that imagination is misinterpreted....I carry the notion that real imagination is realisation in what the unconscious has in mind.
It is easy to forget the path we have taken when we are so focused on, well, what we consciously want ahead of us but this is not necessarily what we unconsciously know is ahead of us.
Inner turmoil occurs when we are consciously going against the unconscious plan. It just feels off, and so do we.

What we all know as LOA, is working all the time. Yes, you can have everything or anyone you want. Remember, the universe does not think like a person. Therefore, it doesn't know what's best for you or "has something better" in store for you, as some LOA guru's actually promote it as. It doesn't require you to change your character. It's an impartial law. It gives no matter what. It's just that people go about it the wrong way and treat this law as if it were some spiritual philosophy.

In a sense, yes, it is always working. Everything that is going to happen, will happen, like it or not. Whether aware of this or unaware of this, both you and I will face apparent unwanted circumstances in life. Some things are simply unavoidable. 
It is not for us to choose the path we take, our unconscious mind will push us there anyway, however, we can see the path in advance so to capitalise and maximise the opportunity ahead, keeping yourself 1 step ahead of the game, when we know how to bring the unconscious to the surface. Through dissociation, the conscious awareness is put to sleep and we see through unconscious awareness instead.

How many times have you said, "I wish I had done this / that earlier in my life"
The fact of the matter is, there was no earlier.
Make no mistake, your path is in front of you indefinitely but have you always got the correct perception to see it?

I'll let you all think about that in relation to your own lives.

[Anna1408]

However, loa has not been proven to exist, either

I'd disagree with this, Anna. I think it's been proven to exist, but the whole LOA name is incorrect. Part of the reason why they called it the Law of Attraction is because, due to the time sequence from thought to reality, and the "bridge of incidents/series of events" which often leads you from your thought to your chosen physical reality, it seemed to be "an attraction" like you were going from point A to point B to Point C, etc. It's just physics, really. You get the idea.

The problem with the name LOA is it causes people think in terms of "attraction". That spawns crap like "vibration","getting in the vortex", and all the other silly LOA terms we know and love. Then the people who have success will often rationalize it to being "Oh, I must've let go and he came back. My RS worked!". But when things fall apart for them, they're back to square one and left oblivious to what went wrong. Unfortunately, these people don't use critical thinking and that's why there's so few LOA success stories out there.

What we all know as LOA, is working all the time. Yes, you can have everything or anyone you want. Remember, the universe does not think like a person. Therefore, it doesn't know what's best for you or "has something better" in store for you, as some LOA guru's actually promote it as. It doesn't require you to change your character. It's an impartial law. It gives no matter what. It's just that people go about it the wrong way and treat this law as if it were some spiritual philosophy.

Sorry, MA138, I probably didn't make myself clear enough. I wasn't disputing whether loa exists or not: I know without a doubt that it exists, and I've proven it to myself time and again. But what I was referring to more was that the science world and the mainstream don't acknowledge it's existence (not that I know of, at least). It is not "scientifically proven" was what I meant.

[Alexbally]

I would say here that "personal experience" is extremely paper thin when considering it for any form of evidence in just about everything. Your opinion is biased, you could be missing details out, you could be shoe-horning information or distorting it so to fit your particular paradigm....
It's floppy, at the very best.

If something cannot repeatedly yield the same results, over and over again and stand up to harsh scrutiny....
It's not real.

[Anna1408]

I would say here that "personal experience" is extremely paper thin when considering it for any form of evidence in just about everything. Your opinion is biased, you could be missing details out, you could be shoe-horning information or distorting it so to fit your particular paradigm....
It's floppy, at the very best.

If something cannot repeatedly yield the same results, over and over again and stand up to harsh scrutiny....
It's not real.

Hmmm....not sure about that....