Beliefs Don't Matter!

[WizardofWisdom]

Ginny ... First I never felt you were "having a go at me."  Everyone is entitled to their opinion and this thread has become a healthy debate we can all learn something from - including me!

Secondly, I know what you mean about the self deception - and there is a fine line here because there is a "fake it till you make it" school of thought.

In one of their recordings, Abraham directly tells the audience to lie to themselves about their reality.  They frequently state that it's as though we're injected with "truth serum" and that we insist on telling everything "like it is" even when that doesn't serve us.

What I've learned personally - and finally took on board as a truth to at least experiment with - is that reality is created in our minds first and that what we experience day to day is the wake, the aftermath if you will, of what we've previously thought and felt.

So a degree of self deception - when it makes you feel better, may be quite healthy.  It's when it borders on delusional that it can become difficult both for the individual and anyone he or she connects with.  Someone who says they are king of the hill when they're living in the gutter is difficult for most of us to take seriously.  If that person were only to say, "I'm at a low point now but I know I can find a way out of this" that would be fine.  Perhaps self deception is really only a matter of trying to take too big a leap from wherever you are, emotionally speaking, right now.

Which leads me to your point about leaving emails unopened.  I still do that sometimes - with exactly the same thought process as you!   

However, I have learned that I can tell myself that great Susan Jeffers belief: "Whatever happens I can handle it."  That helps.

But more even than that is this: never open a bill or any other kind of message that you fear may contain "negative" information until you have put yourself in a positive state first.  A minute of singing or even just deep breathing can sometimes be enough.  But I can honestly say that taking charge of my personal state of mind/being has enabled me to shrug and even smile at negative news, and without question has made me more resourceful in terms of figuring out how to handle it.  Seriously - it's about aligning yourself with universal consciousness I think - tensing up and fearing bad news is like cutting off the flow of energy, whereas getting into a "good space" first lets it flow and ideas about how to respond or what to do just seem to pop up.

Again, this is personal experience - I can't be certain it will be that way for everyone - although I practically am!

Thanks for all your comments and your thoughtfulness.

Trevor.

[Ginny]

I addressed the "fake it until you make it" school of thought in another post - I had nearly 40 years of this (having been brought up with LOA), and while I was a huge success academically and professionally, emotionally I was a wreck. So I don't subscribe to that at all.

But on to other points:

Elsewhere you have said, "Beliefs don't matter unless you believe they do". This is a wonderful contradiction, and I think I actually agree with it. Because beliefs do matter, but if your over-riding belief is that they don't, then they don't. Brilliant! 

I can see this very clearly - it is not the beliefs per se, it is the energy that people invest in them. This is why it mildly annoys me sometimes when I see people picking apart how a wish or affirmation is worded. It may be that sometimes there is a negative belief or emotion embedded in there that the person isn't recognising, but more often than not I think they are simply speech patterns, and if the energy and emotion behind the desire are positive, it will manifest, no matter how you word it. Sometimes you don't even have to word it.

However, you have said again that you can choose your thoughts. I wonder again if this is a difference between people? You can choose your thoughts to some extent, but not everyone finds this as easy as others. In fact, at one point, I had such a problem with unwanted negative thoughts (I could replace them with a better thought, but they would come back pretty quickly, often with a vengeance) that I have probably spent a solid month of my life (ie, over several years, when you edit out the time spent eating, sleeping, working, socialising, etc) just learning more about unwanted thoughts and how to control them, about the brain biochemistry behind them, etc. For someone who finds it easy to re-direct their thoughts, this is probably baffling - you think, it's like walking, just put one foot in front of the other. Why is this person deliberately stumbling? But, if you were raised in an environment where you never learned to walk, never built up the muscles in your legs, then walking is not as simple as putting one foot in front of the other. It's a gradual process - once you're there, once you can do it, it's easy. But until that point, there is a lot of learning and frustrating trial and error. Or, as another analogy, it's maybe like saying that you can have huge biceps immediately. Maybe there is someone somewhere in the world who can grow huge biceps immediately from the power of thought alone. But most of us I think have to build them up over a period of time, learning the correct exercise techniques (because if you use the wrong ones, you can cause yourself damage in the long term), and gradually building up the intensity of the exercise.

[ToMeAndOnlyMe]

I've avoided posting in this topic mostly because I don't generally agree with it.

My reasoning why is due to the fact that I believe (at least for me) the most beneficial way to activate LOA is the belief in oneself (myself). Am I making sense here?

Having a healthy relationship with your own spirit, your mind, is so key because it aids in the more difficult aspects of LOA such as detachment and letting go. You can apply pretending until you believe, but as Ginny says, it only works for people who are suited for it. I myself can say it never worked for me because I felt dishonest with myself. While the Universe may not see dishonesty as us humans do, humans have their definition of it.

As humans, we have our senses, each person has a sense that is stronger than another, therefore we react differently. Someone who believes that happiness is physically tangible will have different views as someone who believes that happiness is spiritual. None of it is wrong, but in the subject of LOA, both would initially approach it differently. Due to these differences, both people would give off different energy, not because they want to, but with what's already ingrained in them (subconscious belief).

[Ginny]

Having a healthy relationship with your own spirit, your mind, is so key because it aids in the more difficult aspects of LOA such as detachment and letting go.

Absolutely. It is easier to overcome an insecurity or doubt that you understand than one that you are simply repressing. In my experience anyway. And, as I say, I was completely raised on the idea that you could do the opposite - that you could just say that everything was grand and it would be. There are a lot of layers in there, and awareness is key. Awareness isn't the same as wallowing - so, I'm not a big fan of endless years of psychoanalysis (but if it works for some people, great). I just mean, that in any given situation, if I understand why I feel as I do, I have much better results than if I try to say, "Black is white, of course it is" and smile.

[Edge]

There is a bit of confusion here.
I think we are confusing conscious thoughts with unconscious beliefs.

In the link below you can hear what "Abraham" (Esther Hicks) really said about conscious thoughts - essentially, you can only create what you consciously think about. Nowhere does she mention unconscious beliefs. There is no question that unconscious beliefs can limit or empower us - unconscious beliefs DO count, and they count a huge amount.

Abraham-Hicks: subconscious vs conscious

Peace and love,
Edge.

[Ginny]

Thanks Edge, that's brilliant.


This to me makes perfect sense. Your conscious thoughts (and more importantly I think, emotions) are key. But these can be affected by unconscious beliefs.

So, say you want a certain job. Like Esther is saying in the clip, you can affirm until the cows come home, but if you don't really believe it, on a conscious level, it's not coming. And why would you not believe something on a conscious level, despite all your affirmations and desires? Seems to me it's because you don't believe it on a subconscious level - there is something you aren't penetrating, however much you insist the opposite.

And I think you can judge this by gauging your emotions. Gauging them honestly, not in some kind of manic frenzy because you are so desperate for your manifestation that you are willing to tell yourself that you see black when in fact you see white. If you really look and observe, it leads to so much more clarity (IMO) than just saying, "No, black is white, black is white, black is white".

It also helps you to define what you really want. Going back to the relationship theme - say you want a date with girl X, but you feel discouraged about it. You push that feeling aside, tell yourself that you two are together, that she is responding to you positively when in fact she is ignoring your calls, etc. I don't see how you get anywhere doing that. And in fact, the experience of people on this forum shows that it doesn't work - saying that you believe something when you don't really doesn't get you anywhere. But if instead you observed your feelings, observe the mild discouragement and disquiet - then you can ask yourself where it comes from. And you might discover that it comes from factors that you can change, or incorrect assumptions, etc - and once you are aware of those things, you can change them and be in a much better position to have a genuinely positive mind-frame or beliefs about the situation. And it can also help you to let go. Maybe through this observation you engage in some real self-honesty, and you realise that you only want her because she seems unobtainable. Adn when you see how stupid a reason that is for pursuing someone, you can let it go and keep your mind open for someone who is a better match to you.

I think open-ness and being honest to yourself are critical. It doesn't mean pessimism, rather observing and being aware of where emotions come from, and what you really want. You can do all that and still believe that anything is possible - but when you keep your eyes open, you are in a much better position to see how you get from here to there, IMO (or even just to ride the wave from here to there, having faith that it will come eventually, even if you aren't there now).

[WizardofWisdom]

Hi ... a quick post because I have to be elsewhere for most of today ...

First, to say to ToMeAndOnlyMe, you are absolutely right - your relationship with yourself is paramount.  You need belief in yourself and trust in the universe and everything else will fall into place.

And yes, I know that's easy to say!  Which brings me to Ginny's point about choosing your thoughts.

I don't have time to go into detail today, but I too was brought up in a relatively negative environment.  I never said I found it easy to re-direct my thoughts!  But I discovered during my NLP training in the 1980s that I/we could  - and I couldn't help wondering why we were not taught to use our brains this way at school!  Imagine how much more likely we might have been to have passed all those horrible tests and exams if we had had some resource to manage our nerves or better still, how to believe in our ability to understand and retain some information!

In the early days, I too found it an effort of will and had to make a conscious effort to make it work.  Sometimes, (not very often these days, but still now and then), I still do.

But ... and this is the key point ... once you know you CAN choose your thoughts there's no going back.  Every mood, every negative reaction, every down day or moment you have the ability to remind yourself that the way you're feeling is a choice.  And you can change it in a heartbeat.  (And yes, all of that is explained in my book!)

You are not a victim of your past -  and the knowledge that you have the ability to choose a different response at any and every moment is totally freeing. ("Response-ability!")  As Abraham often says, "You are so free you can choose bondage!"  But - and this is me, not Abraham - if you do choose that, or anything else - make sure you know it's a choice.

Later,
Trevor.

P.S. As I've been typing this Edge has kindly posted a recording of Abraham, and Ginny has replied.  Abraham unequivocally and LOUDLY state, "It is not, not, not, not NOT subconscious!"  Hear them make the analogy with a painter who paints blindfold!

Everything you manifest is a result of vibration you have consciously built.  As I said in the very first post of this thread - "subconscious beliefs don't matter!"  Listen to the recording ... Abraham, as you would expect, says it far better than I ever could! 

The only thing that matters is feeling good - it is a waste of your time scrabbling around trying to find subconscious beliefs - because if they're subconscious they CAN'T be affecting your reality!  So, Ginny, when you say "Seems to me it's because you don't believe it on a subconscious level - there is something you aren't penetrating, however much you insist the opposite" you may be right - but it doesn't matter!  Just reach for a better feeling ... that's the point.  Mining for a negative or limiting belief that may or may not be buried deep within you isn't going to help or suddenly release you to manifest your desire, but feeling good/better will.  And you can do that consciously!!!

Just change the way you feel and your manifestations MUST show up.

Thank you Edge & Ginny.

[Ginny]

Thanks Trevor -

I think we are saying similar things, but in slightly different ways.

I wasn't brought up in a negative environment - I was brought up in a relentlessly positive environment! (as I said, my mother was a firm believer in LOA, although she didn't call it that - she had all the books though - Think and Grow Rich, As a Man Thinketh, etc). It (the unending pressure to be positive) used to drive me nuts!!! - this was part of why I moved to England - oh, the joy of finally having the freedom to be negative!

I agree that, once you learn how to redirect your thoughts, it is easy. But the learning how - THAT can be difficult. I seem to be talking in analogies today, but it's like looking at those 3D pictures that were so popular 20 years ago. People would be staring at them saying, "Oh wow! Look at that! Amazing!" - and until you worked out how to see the 3D image, it was really frustrating! You'd think, "These are all ringers, they can't really see anything, they are just pretending". But then you work out the trick of how you see the 3D images, and it's easy. There's still a gap there though, between when you are working out how to do it, and when you have.

I find, sometimes I have a bad feeling for something that I can't account for. I try re-directing my thoughts - and yes, that's a great and useful technique. It's not the same as saying black is white though. So, say you are worried about a promotion. You try to be positive, visualise yourself with the job, but something is still niggling at you. No matter how you try, you can't overcome that feeling (I know you say you can, but this is where I say that we are all different, and some people can and some can't). For me, to just "choose" to be happy, and try to ignore that bad feeling, is a totally useless exercise. I did that for at least 30 years of my life, and all it did was make me neurotic. What I personally find more useful (and again, I am acknowledging that we are all different, and what works for me won't necessarily work for everyone) is to observe that negative feeling, and try to see where it is coming from. Almost invariably I can trace it to something that is either an unfounded subconscious belief, or that doesn't really matter when looked at more closely. And then the anxiety just evaporates.

This is what works for me. I hazard a guess that it works for others as well. You have a technique that works for you, and I hazard that that also works for others. But to say that everyone should be able to taste phenylanine just because you can (or the converse, that they cannot because you cannot) is not realistic. Options, awareness, flexibility - these are all really helpful qualities I find.

Thanks for taking so much time to comment - I enjoy being able to debate some of this stuff, 'cos some people's hackles rise if you show any doubt in approved methods, so it's good to be able to discuss it

[Ginny]

ps - my mother was big into NLP as well, so I was trained in that from an early age. And again I say, it did me no good whatsoever, just made me neurotic. We are all different - I did find a technique that works, and I now I find it relatively easy to re-direct my thoughts, but the method that works for me has absolutely nothing to do with NLP (which for me was a complete disaster), and quite a lot to do with awareness, meditation and things I have learned from eastern philosophies such as Buddhism and Taoism. Different strokes for different folks andall that.

[Vicki Christina]

Thanks Trevor -

I think we are saying similar things, but in slightly different ways.

Thank you for restating what I said earlier...  Semantics.   I have known people in my family who could never understand another member who suffered from depression and substance abuse.   They said why you get up and go to work that is all.  Some people have the ability to let go of old programming easily while others cannot see their way through the old beliefs and fears without a lot of help and work.    And everyone here who has had some time in LOA work seems to agree it is the good feeling place that brings on the manifestitation of desires.   The Hicks seem to be the two of the most followed seers and I have been to see them and have read almost very thing they have written.  My two favorite writers on these topics are Gregg Braden who says "prayers are feelings", and Bruce Lipton who studies the science of beliefs in his epigenetic research. 

Trevor,  Welcome here.  We have so many new people who come here in pain and are just learning about LOA.  Sometimes they have only seen The Secret.   It is always nice to have a variety of people here who can participate in the threads and help coach people while they find their way to better thoughts.

[Apple]

It seems to me that Abraham is backing up what Trevor is saying.

You choose your thoughts, which over a period of time leads to subconscious beliefs. With most things and experiences, it is negative thoughts. You can turn it around and start choosing positive thoughts, so the new positive thoughts become your subconscious beliefs. Bottom line, it's about feeling better. It's all about vibration.

I also think that negative thoughts can come from being attatched to a certain outcome. It's hard to think I can get from where I want to be from where I am right now. That can create some negative feelings.

Ginny, I understand what you are saying about sometimes it is hard to contol those negative thoughts. So the thing to do, which has been working for me is to take smaller steps to where you want to be. When it is believable, it is much easier to be positive about it.

[Ginny]

Ginny, I understand what you are saying about sometimes it is hard to contol those negative thoughts. So the thing to do, which has been working for me is to take smaller steps to where you want to be. When it is believable, it is much easier to be positive about it.

Exactly!  It's as VC says, we're all saying similar things, but in a slightly different way. This is why you can listen to the Abraham clip and hear that it is concurring with Trevor, whereas I listen to it and hear something slightly different, which I am becoming more and more convinced is pretty much the same thing. I am hearing that beliefs do matter, but only insofar as they affect your feelings. I'm not quite sure why you and Trevor are hearing something different, but I guess it doesn't really matter, as long as people are able to benefit from the dialogue.

My main point is that sometimes people can convince themselves that they are feeling good, when they are actually feeling anxious or unhappy. I don't really understand how this happens, but I've seen it often enough to realise that it does happen. This is why I think awareness is important - don't just squash down the feeling. Choose better feeling thoughts, definitely - but if there's something niggling at you, don't just ignore it. I did that for 30-odd years, and it messed me up. I've now found a really good balance between being able to choose better feeling thoughts  while at the same time having an awareness of where negative thoughts come from, and I find that the most useful balance of all.

When I see someone saying something like, "I have let go, really!! And I am happy, happy, happy!!! Although I tried to kill myself last night because she ignored my text!!" (which, I am not exaggerating, I have actually seen posts of exactly that nature on this forum, and many others which are similar in quality - and on the particular occasion I am thinking of, the poster couldn't even see that his claims of happiness had to be false, if he'd contemplated suicide the night before - really frustrating!!!) -  then my reaction is - stop squashing down your feelings, look at them and try to see where they are coming from, because just ignoring them and pretending to be happy and detached when you quite clearly are not is not doing you any good at all.

That was really where my main reservation about this dialogue comes from.

[Shrikanya]

Hi Ginny,


You are right. we must not quash the negative feelings but find its source. Only then we can find true balance and channelize our energy to positive things.


Best Regards,
Shrikanya

[Edge]

It's easy to take a quote and use it out of context - i.e.

P.S. As I've been typing this Edge has kindly posted a recording of Abraham, and Ginny has replied.  Abraham unequivocally and LOUDLY state, "It is not, not, not, not NOT subconscious!"  Hear them make the analogy with a painter who paints blindfold!

What Esther is saying is - it is not your subconscious thoughts that are manifested, because you can only have conscious thoughts (obviously!).
She is talking about thoughts, not unconscious beliefs, which are different.

As I said, the two are being confused.

Edge.

[hainguyen99]

It's easy to take a quote and use it out of context - i.e.

P.S. As I've been typing this Edge has kindly posted a recording of Abraham, and Ginny has replied.  Abraham unequivocally and LOUDLY state, "It is not, not, not, not NOT subconscious!"  Hear them make the analogy with a painter who paints blindfold!

What Esther is saying is - it is not your subconscious thoughts that are manifested, because you can only have conscious thoughts (obviously!).
She is talking about thoughts, not unconscious beliefs, which are different.

As I said, the two are being confused.

Edge.

It's easy to take a quote and use it out of context - i.e.

P.S. As I've been typing this Edge has kindly posted a recording of Abraham, and Ginny has replied.  Abraham unequivocally and LOUDLY state, "It is not, not, not, not NOT subconscious!"  Hear them make the analogy with a painter who paints blindfold!

What Esther is saying is - it is not your subconscious thoughts that are manifested, because you can only have conscious thoughts (obviously!).
She is talking about thoughts, not unconscious beliefs, which are different.

As I said, the two are being confused.

Edge.

I remeber that Abraham Hicks often said "A belief is just a thought that you think over and over again"