A different perspective?

[Ginny]

So, as I just posted in my welcome message, I do think there is something in the LOA - and ever since I started using it, things have got better for me. I realise this could be down to lots of different factors, and not anything spooky or mystical - but I'm all in favour of doing whatever works.

Reading various accounts of people's frustrations or disappointments with LOA, something occurred to me. Reading another book (one which is very much of the philosophy that we create our own realities), I came across something called 'the Stockdale Paradox'. A condensed version of this is: Admiral James Stockdale was held in a Vietnamese POW camp for 8 years, and subject to torture, isolation, and brutal living conditions. He says he got through the experience by keeping focussed on 'the end of the story' - he never gave up faith that he would escape the POW camp, and live to tell a story of triumph to others.

Now, that all fits nicely with the LOA. However, when asked about the people who didn't make it out, what characteristics (if any) those people shared, somewhat surprisingly he said that they were 'the Optimists', the ones who kept saying, 'We'll be out by Christmas' or Easter or whenever. These people died (he says, 'Of a broken heart', when Christmas came and they weren't released, and then Easter, and they still weren't released, etc). So, despite believing wholeheartedly that everything would work out okay, they did not survive.

The conclusion drawn by the author (and I suppose others who have studied this and similar stories) is that the key to success in the face of seemingly insurmountable odds is:
- to retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties, but
- confront and accept the most brutal facts of your reality, whatever they might be.

i'm wondering if that has a bearing here? When I read the stories of people pining for their ex-es... is it perhaps unhelpful to tell yourself that they love you really, even if they've displayed demonstrable coldness or apathy? (I actually think hatred or anger from the other person gives you a bit more to work with - at least they still care enough to have an emotional reaction, and you have a chance to apologise or make things up to them. But when I read all these stories where someone describes person X ignoring text after text and not returning phone calls, I have to wonder how helpful it is to maintain a seemingly contradictory belief that they care in the face of that evidence). So perhaps in such circumstances (according to the Stockdale model) it would be more useful to acknowledge that said person doesn't seem to care right now, but that that will change in future?

Really not wanting to rain on anyone's parade, just wanting to find the keys to the most useful ways of thinking.

[Andrew Wilkie]

Ginny,

This is a cracker. Let's have a punt at this one.

I take this several ways.  Some of these things we'll never know.  Were they wishing or expecting?  When you go into war, let's be honest. Nobody knows its end date. Also

'We'll be out by Christmas' or Easter

. Which Easter or Christmas?  It's not very specific. Yet LOA did get Stockdale out for an Easter and a Christmas.

When creating deadlines for goals. Do they work for you in general? If not, don't include them. Certainly don't make them an already important date, i.e. Christmas, Birthday. You've got lots going on already.

Deadlines often put pressure on people. Instead of it being a deadline, it becomes more of a failure check. A person changes their goal vibration, attitude and behaviour.  They are constantly checking is X here yet? Is it hear yet? Instead of I know this is going to happen and just getting on with things.

Then when the day comes. They go oh, its not here. Then completely change their feelings, behaviours and actions.

displayed demonstrable coldness or apathy

- That is your interrprtation of their behaviour, which leads to your emtioanl reposnse and reaction.  Yes, your right on the money with reframing the behaviour 

that that will change in future?

In the case of POWs or in fact anybody. There is no failure, only a delay in your results.  OK, so the date passed.  Do I still want the goal? Is it important to me?  What worked? what didn't? What can I change? 

LOA and end results is a numbers game. It's about the number of opportunities to achieve your end outcome.

Stockdale focused on

'the end of the story'.

I think in his case he was right. He knew, war don't have an end date. He kept focusing on the end result only without conditions.  He focused beyond getting out.

confront and accept the most brutal facts of your reality, whatever they might be

. Or is that an excuse for failing and not reaching your end result?  Ex etc. I know people who have have waited over 30 years. Most people aren't prepared to do that.

In my experience most people get frustrated and disappointed with LOA because they wanted something yesterday.  They are told all the steps of LOA.  Don't apply them or apply them once, not really expecting anything. Get a result, maybe not the one they were expecting and go back to their old behaviour. 

If you have behavioured in a certain way for X years and you do something different once.  How often do you stick with the new behaviour? This only seems to happen in childhood. Alas most of us, use this type of one time learning to create our phobias.

Now if you were to use the skills and tools of LOA and combine it with a significant emotional event.  Then that would be a different story.

You have said LOA is working for you. Keep doing it the way it is working for you.
 

[Ginny]

Cool, thanks for your response.

Yes, it does seem to be working. In fact, given all the incredibly stupid ways in which I've run interference on myself, I am quite astounded at how well it's working.

In fact, the only thing I have done right is to have a belief that course of action A will deliver desired result B, even though A and B have nothing directly to do with one another. I hadn't actually heard of the LOA when I started doing that - it was purely through reaching a point of desperation and trying to bargain with the universe (yeah, I was going a little bit crazy at the time ). To my amazement, the universe (or my guardian angel, or however you want to look at it) seemed to honour the bargain. So, I kept on doing A. I did everything else wrong - so badly wrong that even people who don't believe in LOA would have expected that I would have messed things up by now - but I kept doing A, and kept believing that the universe would honour the bargain, and things seemed to muddle along okay.

Then I learned about LOA, and everything seemed to work even better. It's still hard, keeping the doubts at bay. Part of my head tells me this is totally crazy, superstitious thinking - and then the other half says, "Who cares? If it works and you feel good, keep at it, crazy or no". And whenever I start to run interference on myself, I just try to remind myself that I really do want this thing, and shouldn't put obstacles in my own path. Quite difficult though, when the devil on your shoulder is poking you to act in unproductive ways, to keep ignoring it and stay focussed on the positive. On the plus side, it does give me something else to be grateful for - namely that I still seem to have B, even given the multitude of ways I've subconsciously put a spanner in the works! - Now if I could just stop with that spanner, I'd be even more grateful